Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

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Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Geno on Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:02 pm

My ideal solution is The Venus Project and a Resource Based Economy. Now how to make that a reality is the kicker. I believe it's all about awareness and that's why I support this movement so strongly because if nothing else, it's getting people to talk about these issues. It's one step at a time and this is the first step, getting people to realize that the world isn't so peachy to begin with.

If I had my way, as a first step, I would demand intensive community building projects that are designed around emerging sustainable techniques such as Permaculture, Aquaculture and Sustainable Housing such as Eco Domes (which is built with Super Adobe) and Earthship Houses.

These systems take a bit of work to get established but they are truly sustainable in every aspect of their design. Once built, they can last thousands of years.

2000 Year Old Food Forest
A million pounds of food on 3 acres

So if we can implement technologies like these, the community feeds itself and has more than enough to share with other emerging communities who might want to do something similar.

Instead of trying to rely on the government to take care of all of these issues, teach people how to be self sustainable and deal with the issues themselves.

I don't believe that tax reform, political reform or any of the other reform ideas will work because it's putting a band-aid on a deeply infected system that is inherently broken. The goals here should be to attempt to get back to what our Forefathers created America to be. Land of the Free. Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness. They really did have the right idea but it's been massively perverted over the years to accommodate the wealthy and powerful instead of your average American.

I would hire the best social engineers to go into each community to assist them in building a system that works. Granted, they might not get it right the first time and would probably take several revisions in order to really make it worthwhile. But it would be a start.

Right off the bat do away with the Federal Reserve and all outstanding debt. While money and the monetary system have been critical for our human evolution, it is an outdated system that no longer serves us and only promotes corruption, greed and inequality.

Instead of putting so much value onto the "almighty" dollar, put value into what really matters. People, food and shelter. If we can't value each other, no amount of money can solve our problems. And that brings me to another point. We are one of the "richest" nations in the world, yet we don't have enough money to solve the most basic human problems. The truth of the matter is that we simply don't have enough cooperation.

Our economic crisis is primarily based on a lack of conscious resource allocation. We spent trillions of dollars on warheads, machine guns and tanks when we could have fed, clothed and provided shelter to every single human being on Earth, probably several times over.

When you get communities involved, everyone can pool together all of the available resources and make things happen. It reminds me of the saying "United we stand, divided we fall". That's another great thing about this movement, is that it is getting people to come out of their safe little bubbles and out onto the streets. It is allowing them to get to know their neighbors and really get to the bottom of what is actually going on.

As it stands now, most people are out there struggling to make the ends meet. They are out there fighting alone and they are stressed and scared out of their minds. You can't make rational choices in that state of mind, no matter who you are.

We have to eliminate the fear mongering that is broadcasted every minute of every day by the mass media. Return the media to the people so that we can all grow together instead of being a bunch of misinformed sheep that lives in fear of the big bad wolf.

When the media is returned to the people, we can document and broadcast, in real time, the positive changes that people are making in their communities and inspire other communities to do the same thing or something similar.

Our forefathers had the right ideas and ideals when they created this great nation. They knew that no one policy would be good for everyone and that's why they decided to make all of the different states. If you don't like the policies of one state, move to the state that embraces your way of life.

Our government has gotten too big and tries to impose it's will on the entire world, not just the US. Get rid of the big government and allow the communities to govern themselves. They typically have a better idea of what they need than some outsider does anyway.

Once we start perpetuating the community based mindset, something like The Venus Project will become a no-brainer because it will be far easier to educate people about the benefits and potential pitfalls of such a system.

I don't agree with any kind of 'ism type system because they all tend to be based on the monetary system. Until we realize that money has no value other than the value we give it, I honestly don't see a lot of REAL progress being made.

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by VerbatimCat on Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:58 pm

I've done a bit of research, even saw the interview of Jacque whatshisface. I agree whole heartedly that this is a great ideal of the next step in the evolution of humanity. But I have questions. I'm a problem solver type, so I've been going through theories in my head on how such a project as the Venus Project would be implemented. My biggest obstacle thus far is 'fear and resistance to change'.

Even if we could convince 51% of the US population that this is the way to go, friction would be created out of fear of change and the thought of separatism between status quo and Venus Project supporters. If the 49% feel their way of life is threatened enough, militant action is inevitable.

So change, especially of this magnitude, would require time. But this also presents problems. We've learned first hand the boundaries of the law when it comes to setting up even basic makeshift communities on public lands. NYCGA has been able to stick together for now, but is still vulnerable to prosecution of the law. Therefore, things like insurance, taxation, and regulations of practice is specialized fields of study such as medicine and engineering. With these types of shackles, they could never build the necessary assets required for the VP.

And even on privately owned land, some of these laws hold true, though there are foreseeable work a rounds. Also privately owned land indicates that someone holds liability and even legal ownership over the community and its resources produced in our current govt. This person would also have the right at any time to declare the community as trespassing and effectively ruin the entire thing.

So what if it was owned by an 'Organization'? Well, the same liability is there. And insurance must be paid, with legal currency. So for a long amount of time, until it lost the need of federal/state regulation, the community would have to produce something to create US dollars. Be it small amounts of electricity through man power, sold to local power companies, or fresh produce, or entertainment. Until those out side the VP legally acknowledged what it truly is and stopped imposing the need for the VP to create money as a community for occupying unused or privately owned land, the VP would have to rely partially on the currency of those who control the local policies and have the ability to pursecute.

Question:

Your thoughts on a Corporation organization start up model? By this I mean, the ability to buy 'stock' in a VP community to fund the necessary capital needed for start up. Revenue created by the before mentioned means (selling electricity, foods, and entertainment). With every intent to dissolve the model into the true VP.

Your thoughts on using private funding (via donations, small or big, including interested sympathetic 1%er like Bill Gates Sr. and such) as start up capital?

Do you believe start up capital is even required?

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Geno on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:32 pm

VerbatimCat wrote:Even if we could convince 51% of the US population that this is the way to go, friction would be created out of fear of change and the thought of separatism between status quo and Venus Project supporters. If the 49% feel their way of life is threatened enough, militant action is inevitable.

As far a militant action goes, it's really hard to say how that will turn out. The reality of the situation is the Mass Media is making the general public who buys into it very angry and very scared. All they hear is impending doom and gloom and they are unaware of the root causes of the issues we're facing.

If our current market collapses as I fear it most likely will, all of those angry, uninformed people can make life really hard for the rest of us peaceful protesters. If they start rioting and going wild, that gives the military all they need to bring out the big guns and riot squads. This is when martial law will be put into action and all hell will break loose.

It's just a matter of getting enough awareness to it before the the system actually does collapse. If we can get enough people on board and let them know that a better alternative is available and could literally happen tomorrow if we all just worked together... The more people who know about it, the less rioters and looters there will be. Instead of running around with all that non-sense, they will be protesting peacefully with us.

If we can get all of the occupy movements around the world to demand The Venus Project be enacted... It's kinda hard to ignore 7 billion people. We have to get everyone to empty their bank accounts and toss their money into the streets. That is the most symbolic way for us to let them know that we've had enough and we're not going to take it anymore.

Humans are the only species on the planet who pay to live here. It's bullshit and it's time for it to end.

For all of the people who still support the monetary system, I tell them:

Money and the monetary system has been crucial, even vital to our human evolution but it is an outdated system that is broken at it's core and only promotes greed, corruption and inequality and it needs to die.

We have a long hard road ahead of us but the only way we can get there is peacefully and together. This is a critical tipping point in our human evolution and if we don't drastically change the way we operate, we really, truly don't stand a chance.



VerbatimCat wrote:So change, especially of this magnitude, would require time. But this also presents problems. We've learned first hand the boundaries of the law when it comes to setting up even basic makeshift communities on public lands. NYCGA has been able to stick together for now, but is still vulnerable to prosecution of the law. Therefore, things like insurance, taxation, and regulations of practice is specialized fields of study such as medicine and engineering. With these types of shackles, they could never build the necessary assets required for the VP.

And even on privately owned land, some of these laws hold true, though there are foreseeable work a rounds. Also privately owned land indicates that someone holds liability and even legal ownership over the community and its resources produced in our current govt. This person would also have the right at any time to declare the community as trespassing and effectively ruin the entire thing.

So what if it was owned by an 'Organization'? Well, the same liability is there. And insurance must be paid, with legal currency. So for a long amount of time, until it lost the need of federal/state regulation, the community would have to produce something to create US dollars. Be it small amounts of electricity through man power, sold to local power companies, or fresh produce, or entertainment. Until those out side the VP legally acknowledged what it truly is and stopped imposing the need for the VP to create money as a community for occupying unused or privately owned land, the VP would have to rely partially on the currency of those who control the local policies and have the ability to pursecute.

Question:

Your thoughts on a Corporation organization start up model? By this I mean, the ability to buy 'stock' in a VP community to fund the necessary capital needed for start up. Revenue created by the before mentioned means (selling electricity, foods, and entertainment). With every intent to dissolve the model into the true VP.

Your thoughts on using private funding (via donations, small or big, including interested sympathetic 1%er like Bill Gates Sr. and such) as start up capital?

Do you believe start up capital is even required?

If things work out the way I hope they will, where the whole world demands it with one voice, then of course, no capital will be required. We'll make it happen, no matter what it takes.

As a way to get it going from our current standpoint with the monetary system looming over our heads, I suggest we try to follow a model similar to One Community.

It is a sustainable community that is being put together, that wishes to embrace the ideals laid out by The Venus Project. If we could gather the funds and resources to get something similar to that project off of the ground and then hi-jack our media to show what they are accomplishing, it would make people think "Are we really doing things the best way possible?"

I really believe that once we get a few of these communities built and show people what is possible, they will want something very similar.

Obviously not everyone will subscribe to this new way of thinking and there will be those who wish to cling to our traditional and outdated ways of doing things. To these people I must quote Charles Darwin.

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."

At this point in humanity it all comes down to "Evolve or Perish"


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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Trizzle on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:49 pm

this is a great solution. reason i didnt post it is cause ANYONE i talk to about it dismisses it as 'communism'. But its far from it.

As far a transition goes, of course it will be tough. But what change isn't?

One was it could 'pay the bills' is sell the excess food to nearby communities. But what bills would there be? Solar and wind power could easy provide all we need. The food system Geno posted would easily create excess. I know growing systems have evolved greatly. You can easily grow plenty of food in a small space.


I dont think tho people will jump on it without some kind of test city. When people see that it is working and creating a better life for all, more people will probably embrace it. I would volunteer in a second.

Money has made us compete with each other, when we should be working together for the benefit of all people.

How long will we hold onto a failed system?

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Geno on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:57 pm

We'll hold onto as long as people believe there is a chance it can be fixed.

If anyone reading this thread wouldn't mind, please post this video to your profile in an effort to raise awareness about our current system and how it got that way.

The more people we can get thinking about this, the better.

The Awakening

Also, if we could get someone to post it on the facebook page as OccupyJax that would be great.

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Trizzle on Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:19 pm

great video geno. i posted as occupyjax. Have you heard of the free world charter?

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Geno on Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:26 pm

Awesome, thank you very much. Very Happy

I have heard of the free world charter. I've posted it to a few forums that I frequent but as you said before, people are typically reluctant to consider this as a viable alternative. At least at this point in time. The discussion always ended on "how do we get there".

In my opinion the only way to get there is to keep planting little seeds of awareness and hope they sprout sometime here soon.

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Geno on Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:48 pm

Not to be a pest but the video posted from your personal account instead of as a Occupy Jacksonville official post. I wanted as many of 2,700 followers to see it as possible.

Things on the posts from everyone tend to get lost a lot faster.

Also, for the caption can you put it as "How our system works and how it got that way"

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by ZachAddair on Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:19 pm

Wow I just read everything you wrote in this thread. Great writing and great ideas. I have never heard of the Venus Project but am about to start researching it. The basic premise is awesome if it's truly possible. I think most of the world is starting to realize how fucked this system is.

Maybe it won't be that hard to realize we need to start over before too long...
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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Trizzle on Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:27 pm

what do you think of zeitgeist geno? the addendum explains VP well

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by ZachAddair on Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:38 pm

For anyone with Netflix: there is a movie about Jacque Fresco and The Venus Project called Future By Design.

I can't say anything to its quality because I am only now about to watch it. Smile
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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Geno on Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:43 pm

Trizzle wrote:what do you think of zeitgeist geno? the addendum explains VP well

I love the Zeitgeist films. I don't really think Jacksonville is quite ready for the religious bit in the first one. But if they could fast forward and get to the 9/11 stuff and the money stuff, it could do a lot of people a lot of good.

The first one was a little too "in your face" for a lot of people to really swallow. It also has that conspiracy theory aspect to it that tends to arise a lot of heated arguments. It was created as solo project of Peter Joseph. I'm not exactly sure Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph got connected but once they did, they collaborated together for Addendum as you said.

Addendum was a lot less in your face but it still leaves the doors wide open for heated debates because it's so hard to prove any of what they are say. I don't mean to discredit the information at all, it could be true. I like it because it makes you think outside the box. Because even if there isn't any proof, this stuff is really plausible.

With the latest Zeitgeist, Moving Forward, I think they did a great job in sticking to the facts and really laying the framework for why we are in the situation we're in and what we can do to get out of it. My only complaint with it is there is a high pitched squeal at times throughout the film. Other than that, I highly recommend that everyone check it out.


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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by ZachAddair on Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:48 pm

What religious stuff is in their videos?
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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Geno on Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:51 pm

It pretty much outlines the history of religion to it's origins.

It states that Jesus is a replicated figure from many, many other and much older religions. Some people have a hard time with that and call it blasphemy and everything else.

I find it interesting personally but others seem to find it offensive.

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by ZachAddair on Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:00 pm

Yeah, I used to be a Christian and I could see when people were trashing it or just stating what is known as "fact" of that time or really is fact.

Either you believe after that or not, but you're going to have people say stuff to you all the time like that.
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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Trizzle on Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:06 pm

you need an open mind for the religious part, or just skip it. But i strongly recommend watching it with an open mind.

the second one did show some solutions to today's problems that are possible, without the restraint of money. With power and transportation. I haven't seen the 3rd yet.

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Geno on Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:09 pm

Definitely Tom, the 2nd one shows some very viable solutions.

I was referring to the bits about the economic terrorists and whatnot. While it's very, very plausible, it's really hard to prove. Everything about The Venus Project and what Jacque Fresco says is a no brainer. Very Happy

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by ZachAddair on Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:50 pm

PS. I am officially in love with this guy. If this is what the future is like, it will be so freaking awesome!
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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Geno on Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:52 pm

Recommend it to all of your friends. We have to continue letting people know that this could happen tomorrow if we all demanded it. We already have everything we need to make it a reality.

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by ZachAddair on Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:55 pm

What are some more films about him and the group? Or good youtube videos?

Could you give me like a list of the best resources on the basic ideas?
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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by Geno on Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:34 pm

You can check out their website for more information but really the best source is by going to youtube and searching for Jacque Fresco and The Venus Project. He's done numerous worldwide lectures that are on there somewhere. I'm not sure exactly right now, but a query for Jacque Fresco 2011 should be helpful. Feel free to post your favorite ones here for everyone else!

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by VerbatimCat on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:17 pm

Just finished watching Awakening, about to pick up that Doc. Zach mentioned as well.

I forget who said it, and it's on the first page of this thread so I'll be damned if I hit the back button to find out!, but the test city idea is what would have to happen IMO. Get a small settlement going, make it completely self sufficient, then study the results.

That, or a complete economic collapse will happen, and those informed with this sort of knowledge will turn the panicked masses towards this alternative in spite of any government's wishes. I'll chime back in once I've seen the documentary.

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Re: Proposed Long Term Goal - The Venus Project

Post by ZachAddair on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:47 pm

I agree. I think we need more facts and a test study, but we have time to figure that out. For now, we just need to keep getting people together. Anything we create would be better than the mess we have now.

I was just imagining half or God forbid ALL of the factories in America and the world, tomorrow being reprogrammed to send send food, water and shelter to the world's poor. We can change so much so fast we will have to be careful not to give our species whip lash.

We also have to consider the world wanting to put the 1% on trial and possibly not like America very much for being such a pawn for so many years. Things could still get uglier before they get better.
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