ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

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ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by Toaster on Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:10 am

They said that police around the country are being put at "a hightened state of readiness" due to the occupy movement
Readiness for what? Dear god dont let people peacefully occupy space with drum circles and leave it cleaner than it was before
Anything more than periodic checkins by authorities is a retarded waste of resources and tax money

That being said, we are need to be equally as ready, as much as i wish that the entire country waking up and taking to the streets over these issues would be enough to spark change that is not the case
The current regime knows their time is coming, they have prepared for this, they have been planning for a long time, this is the reason for the 11ft razorwire fences at FEMA camps
They will not give up their power easily, i know this because i wouldnt, would you?
This is the beginning of a long long battle, it may not be a battle fought with guns on the streets, but that makes it no less a struggle

This is the time for us to educate ourselves,
learn survival skills,
learn first aid,
study military tactics,
know your enemy as well as they know you,
learn as much as you can while you can,
because soon,maybe next month, maybe a year from now, maybe 10 years from now, there will be be a tipping point.
None of us know what or when it will be but we all know it is going to happen
Right now education is key, it is your most powerful weapon
Right now we have the entirety of human knowledge at our fingertips
But that will not always be the case, it has an off switch
But your brain does not
They cannot turn that off
They cannot shut you down
And that is why they fear you
That is why they fear us
Free will is ours, and we CAN'T let go
Because once we do, we cant get it back


Last edited by Toaster on Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:39 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by ZachAddair on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:38 pm

I don't know how you feel, but me and the vast majority involved in this movement will only ever be peaceful. I believe we will only be successful if we do not fight back.
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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by Dinahmoe on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:56 pm

If you are courteous and peaceful, they can't defeat you. As soon as you join their game, the one they LOVE to play, they win. You know, be like when vader killed obi wan, we grow stronger.
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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by Toaster on Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:11 pm

This movement is peaceful, no dobut
I and everyone i know whos involved is dedicated to that ideal

But no one knows how this will evolve over time, every day the totalitarian arm of our society is being flexed a little more
Being prepared has never hurt anything
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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by nownow on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:43 am

Dinahmoe wrote:If you are courteous and peaceful, they can't defeat you. As soon as you join their game, the one they LOVE to play, they win. You know, be like when vader killed obi wan, we grow stronger.

I'm guessing you believe that violence only begets violence, which is true, but if all we had to do was ask nicely and adopt a certain diet and put good vibes into the universe, then we wouldn't be in this mess. We live under a system that uses violence to allow corporations to rain havoc on the environment, poison our food with pesticides and fertilizers, which then drain into the oceans and the gulf of mexico causing dead zones, imprison minorities by the millions for minor offenses, evicts working families from their homes, not to mention invading other countries for their resources. All of this goes on while non-violent protesters gather to make each other feel good about themselves, to tell each other "if we're just nice enough to these sociopathic companies and the sociopathic men that run them they'll stop." They haven't... and they won't. Ghandi wrote letters to Hitler. Martin Luther King Jr. had counterparts in the civilrights/blackpower movement, Malcom X, Stockly Carmichele, the Black Panther Party, or ask the indigenous communities that survived the genocide of the American Colonization. Which brings me to my point; non-violence ALSO begets violence. Dogmatic pacifism is selfish in the since that pacifist aren't willing to use all means available to really stop an injustice, just so they can up hold a moral purity. In fact they're willing to snitch on those willing to risk their life and liberty to fully confront our enemies.
I have five year old twins, are they going to care who I voted for, how much I recycled, or how many drum circles I sat in? Not if they can't breath the air, drink the water, or grow food in the soil where they live. I'm not saying that non-violence is completely useless as a tactic for political actions, but when its not enough there are those brave individuals willing to step up and escalate their tactics in tandem with non-violent actions. So... make way for the warriors.

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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by Dinahmoe on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:51 am

Good luck with that. You seem to have no clue what we are up against. Go get informed then come back and spout off on how to do things.

There are many very smart people playing this game. They know how to make change, you go ahead and fight your war, they love war, they will crush you. This is about people and winning.
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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by nownow on Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:28 pm

Dinahmoe wrote:Good luck with that. You seem to have no clue what we are up against. Go get informed then come back and spout off on how to do things.

There are many very smart people playing this game. They know how to make change, you go ahead and fight your war, they love war, they will crush you. This is about people and winning.

I do know what we're up against. We're up against a government that is bought off by ruthless corporations thats willing to kill, torture, kidnap, and if you're lucky they'll just imprison you. I am by nature a very peaceful person but if someone was to come into my home and start throwing my things around I'd stop them as peacefully or violently as necessary as I could then ask them to help clean up the mess they just made and find out what the problem was. Now if someone came in and started taking my things and was endangering the lives of my family, there is no question I would kill them if all else fails. Well... would you watch your family being killed? If someone came into my yard and started pouring poisons on my yard, where i grow most of my food to feed my family I'd most likely have to physically stop them. Would you just let them destroy the food you eat? I know what we're up against. I know the day will come when the hammer drops and the ones in power aren't going to tolerate sit-ins, and public gatherings. Hell they're not even willing to tolerate us walking in the street as we march, because we don't have the permission from the authorities that this movement is trying to rendering false. You say that using violence against this violent government is just playing their game, but aren't you just playing by their rules. Obeying the laws that keep us all in order so as not to disrupt the business of sociopaths. Obeying the terms of a silly permit so we can all feel like we're accomplishing our goals while the banks are still foreclosing on family homes, while Monsoto is still raping our food, while B.P. is still pumping oil out of our waters, while Georgia-Pacific is still planning on pumping effluent into the St. Johns. I'm not advocating thoughtless unabashed violence, I'm simply asking people in this movement to question thoughtless unabashed non-violence. I have participated in many non-violent acts and do so often, I just wish this movement would really show real solidarity with people who use deferent tactics instead of worrying about what the mainstream corporate media thinks, because after all they're part of the problem too.

We could go on and on over this forum but if you would like to meet in person and have drink and talk human to human I'd love to. Or maybe I'll see you at Riverside Park this Saturday.

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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by Toaster on Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:48 am

you mistake my call for preparedness for one of war and violence

no no no my point is missed and it may be my fault for my wording

i simply mean in a few years you do not know how this will lead, you dont know if we will succeed or if we will all be thrown in jail/camps

i dont want to see fighting any more than the next person
but our forefathers gave us the right to bear arms and the right to form local militias to defend ourselves, our communities, and the ideals of the United States Constitution
this has always been known, and is a source of fear for any corruption in power
it is the reason for the legislations ever attacking those rights, they do not want the people to have any ability to fight back, but they cannot simply take those rights away, but they can weaken them to where they are no longer a significant threat to their power structure

i see this leading to political reform and success, and thats what we all want, and is the best case scenario
this is one of the few things in life where the best case scenario happens to the the most possible outcome.
but there is also the chance that the worse case happens
the small chance the powers that be decide to act on their plans to crush dissent, however unlikely, we shouldnt get caught with our pants down, we should all be prepared to show that we will defend ourselves, as is our right

when you do anything you should always HOPE FOR THE BEST AND PREPARE FOR THE WORST
risk management 101
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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by nownow on Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:11 am

I agree. You should checkout a documentary called END;CIV. I think you'd like it.

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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by lotus86flower on Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:03 pm

ZachAddair wrote:I don't know how you feel, but me and the vast majority involved in this movement will only ever be peaceful. I believe we will only be successful if we do not fight back.

As much as I agree, I believe that protesters have a right to protect themselves. Maybe if they are all supplied with masks and shields....
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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by Kennie on Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:54 am

I believe the most likely way for us to win would be through non violence. Who knows what the future holds, violence might be required, however we are no where near that at this point. We are in the growing stages at this point. We want people to see that we are defenseless. We do not want to throw anything. We want to have as much video footage as possible, showing that we are unarmed, peaceful, and when the police use violence of any kind, then we will be gaining support. Any violance this early in the game, will just give those currently against our movement the reasoning to think we shouldn't be listened too. Additionally, we want the police to eventually join our side. If you think about it, do you think they would be more likely to join if we've been throwing things at them, cursing at them, and making their lives difficult? Or if we are peaceful, and show kindness, meanwhile they are getting yelled at by their superiors, which of those two do you think will make them think twice?


If we lived in a country controlled by dictator, where people were being slaughtered, that would justify violence, but getting zip tied and booked, IMO does not give cause for violence.
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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by nownow on Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:30 pm

lotus86flower: You're exactly right. We do have a right to defend ourselves. We have a right to defend our environment. I wish people would ask themselves, What is more violent? Iraqi neighborhoods being cleared out door to door? Or smashing the windows at a recruitment center? What is more violent? Destroying an entire eco-system and the ways of lives for thousands of people or burning down a development office and wrenching the bulldozers? What is more violent? Watching the cops beat the shit out somebody you love or beating the shit out of the cops to save somebody you love? What is more violent? The cops evicting a family from their home or sabotaging a bank? This then becomes a question of morality. Not a question of tactics between violence or non-violence. You're exactly right. We do have a right defend ourselves and we have an obligation to defend each other.

Kennie: The most likely way we will win is if we adopt every mode of resistance we have among us. Peaceful and militant. The only problem militants have with non-militants is being snitched on or pointed out to the police. For all the talk about agent provocateurs around the country in the occupy movement whose on whose side? Look into how Labour movement was born and won its victories. Look into how slavery was abolished. Look into how Apartheid was over thrown. Yes we are in the growing stages of a movement but to repeatedly tell the media and to repeatedly tell those of us amongst us who are not afraid to defend ourselves and others from arrest and camp eviction that this is a non-violent movement is to shooting ourselves in the feet when the ante is upped. Being peaceful and non-violent aren't one in the same. Yes you can say your being non-violent while observing and recording the cops beating the shit out of your comrades. But is that not just allowing your comrades to be violently beaten? Tie up the courts with appeals and lawsuits, thats part of the fight, as is actually fighting back. The courts are on the side of cops every time in cases of police brutality until the people get unruly. History proves my point.

As far as not living in country ruled by a dictator. No we don't. We on the other hand prosper and benefit from a country that displaces democratically elected leaders and prop up ruthless dictators. Just take a look Central and South America. Do we really stand in solidarity with those under oppressive forces. Look at Gitmo. Look at the civilian casualties of Iraq and Afghanistan. Or is the anti-war argument solely resting on the financial cost of the conflicts now that a democrat is president?

The point I'm trying to make is not that everybody should become militant in this movement. I'm not even arguing that its the most important. I just want people to understand that if we are to really truly make the changes we need and dream of in this country and around the world we are going to need everything we got. What is the threshold? When do we say enough is enough?

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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by DanD on Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:59 pm

Toaster has a point on understanding the enemy. I attended ant-war and Cafta protest and the police state will begin to use very sophisticated means to disrupt legal dissent and protest. Understanding their intent and practice can help strengthen the OWS message AND avoid violence on our behalf. If they begin to really see OWS as a threat they will seed in their own undercovers to start violence so they can appear to be justified in using violence.

Pay close attention to Occupy Oakland. Be ready to avoid giving the police state excuses.

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Re: ACTION NEWS AT 11, "Police at a heightened state of readiness"

Post by nownow on Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:08 pm

Excuses like... threatening the powers that be? Challenging the status quo? Redistributing the wealth? Turning public space into communes? People defending these stances and commons from eviction? Cops are inherently violent. They don't need to be provoked and hardly ever are when they use violence. Why is the conversation never about the cops provoking protesters? This is just the same liberal bullshit that fell short of saving the environment by means of reforms. This is the same liberal bullshit that fell short of defending the working class for the past three decades of trickle down economics by means of trying to elect the "right" people into the "right" offices. This is the same liberal bullshit that that allowed an anti-war movement to vanish into thin air the minute a democrat was elected (by the way, there is still multiple wars going on). Wake up. We have enemies. And they're not the ones cooking food in street kitchens one hour and than defending them the next. They're not the ones building sustainable communities on public land or in empty buildings (Chapel Hill) then fending off the cops when the orders come down to do so. The enemy is the State. The enemy is the corporations that intrude into our lives. The enemy is the police that continue to follow orders when told the fire tear gas into a camp with children sleeping in them. You have a right to defend yourself. We have the right to defend each other. Is it moral do watch someone you love get the shit beat out of them by a cop? Or is it moral to beat the shit out of a cop to save the ones you love. That question is for anyone who says we need to love our enemies. No. We need to love each other in the way a mother mouse loves her young: attacking humans a thousand times her size to protect her young. Thats love. Whats our problem? We need to pity our enemies. Because we our the answer to the question; Whats next?

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