Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

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Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by Augustus IV on Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:21 pm

I propose that we create a website for ideas and amendments. (This will eventually be the home for NE Florida solutions) Not only will we be able to watch our document grow but it will be forged from an all-inclusive democratic process. I'm sure it won't be an easy thing to do but now is the time for revolution. We have to tools to do it!!!!

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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by melittophily on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:00 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Occupy Together is about solidarity. We largely do not need separate documents from OWS because the problems that bring us together are not NE FL-specific problems.

To a large extent, we express our consensus just by being here. By keeping this focused on OWS's existing demands, we can avoid being torn apart by ideologies - we are centrists, mainstream liberals, libertarians, anti-capitalists of competing left-wing ideologies, and more. That is our biggest asset right now - we have a coalition with shared grievances and some immediate concrete goals.

Perhaps what we need is a productive way for all people to take part in the national+international discussion that won't get bogged down with trolling and pissing contests.

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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by Augustus IV on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:09 pm

A website. A cornerstone to the movement that provides communication without having to deal with the distances that separates us. Everyone will then be included throughout the nation and perhaps eventually the world.

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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by melittophily on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:27 pm

http://www.occupytogether.org

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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by Augustus IV on Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:34 pm

Very Happy

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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by wearelegion on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:56 pm

I feel like I should say something I here because I spoke encouraging something different.

See, the way I see it, is this isn't an organization (obviously). It's a social movement. Social movements don't maintain cohesion. Look at the Vietnam war. There was an entire spectrum of anti-war activists ranging from fundamentalist christian republicans to communists.

As has been said, OWS doesn't speak for us. Occupy Jacksonville doesn't speak for us. We each speak on our own. I think it's a good thing that auxiliary sites are formed. I don't think they should bare the occupy name necessarily, because they are the brainchild of individuals.

I don't see something wrong with a north florida action comittee that organizes on local issues. They'd be an organization, with leaders, or comittees, or something, but they'd be distinct from occupy because occupy has no leaders, merely a common belief.

Of course we've got solidarity with the OWS protesters. What this movement is about is just common sense. Our political system and our financial system have turned absolutely insane and destructive and we're all being rallied to action to fix it. There will be disagreements between each other; this is good, this is the democratic process, and without debate who are we?

I'm not arguing against unity. We need to obviously get everything done that we can to advance our national cause. Right now though, we've got no cohesive national campaign. That's because there's not an organization. If people want to create PACs and direct action groups, more power to them!

This is about participatory democracy, and we'll soon find our cause being drown in a torrential out poring of corporate money, especially on the national level. They're going to sue everyone they can to stop this. They're s a huge multitude of tactics they can do undertake

If we want to succeed, we need to hound them at every turn. We need to fight those jerks every where we can, from our city halls to our state capitol and in DC. They're going to fight us on the local level. We need some degree of individuals to organize in smaller sub groups to fight back.

TL;DR- Occupy has no leaders, no real organization, just people coming face to face with a terrifying future. OWS was a powder keg, and now the country is aflame. Should this inspire 10,000 different citizen websites and action groups, good. I hope it inspires 100,000 different groups. So long as we share our focus on empathy, peace, and reform.
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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by ZachAddair on Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:24 pm

We do not fight them in the way you are thinking. If you want to go start an organization, go ahead, but it will not start here.

Separately, I support a local website just to advertise local issue and to help on local people meeting each other and having a one stop shop to see where meetings are happening.
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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by wearelegion on Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:28 pm

Well look. The republicans in Florida are overtly trying to suppress voter turnout. So you're telling me that if I wanted to start a group that was tasked with fighting voter suppression, it wouldn't catch on with this group? I see the need to keep the organizations distinct from the greater occupy movement, but there's certainly a lot of specific issues that we're faced with on a local and national level.

What do you mean by "We" though? "You" do not fight them in the way I am thinking. The protesters in wall-street may not fighting the way I am talking about fighting.

This does not mean that "we" do not fight them on a local level. I encourage everyone here to fight them wherever they can.

I don't frankly care how you fight them. I understand how anon has been successful, I understand how OWS has come together. I have been involved in grassroots, local campaigns before.


I hope this doesn't sound like I'm being a jerk, because I think we're actually agreeing here, but my only point is that it's a good thing if people use the occupy movement to launch other campaigns. They just simply shouldn't call themselves the 99% anymore, and they shouldn't use the occupy moniker.

But if you're telling me that this movement should ignore Rick Scott's attempts to silence reform minded voters, because somehow this will fracture us from those on wall street, I whole-heartededly disagree. It's totally cool if you think differently.

There are many issues facing the movement from a strategic level. Trust me, we need to organize. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but what you know about the formation of this movement is moot; the playing field is rapidly changing and we've been loud enough that we're getting noticed by BIIIG MOOONEY.

In Florida alone there's the US Sugar behemoth that controls Floridian politics. I'm not saying this as a nutcase, I'm saying this as a former GOP staffer (totally not a republican though) who sat in on meetings with Florida Sugar Lobbyists and listened as they talked specifics on the everglades. I watched the Rick Scott machine form.

I have no problem saying this, if you're familiar with the politics of Florida as of late, there is more reason to be pissed off at our state government then there is to be pissed at the national government. Unemployment in Jacksonville is much higher than the national average. Voter suppression efforts are nearly unmatched across the nation. Rick Scott is rebranding the idea of Crony Capitalism.

If there's one thing I know about politics, from experience, is that you can lead an entirely legitimate centrist grassroots campaign, but when enough money is against you, unless you truly create people's movement, you're doomed.

The OWS protests and their demands are great. I completely agree with them. But that's not some constitution that the occupy movement has signed. Like I said, this is a social movement, a shift in the national thought and the national dialog. We won't see the OWS demands passed through congress unless we organize at the grassroots and participate in direct action campaigns.

We should totally demand what OWS is demanding. But that isn't to say that's all we should demand. The Assemblies are a nexus of the movement, and I don't see why people shouldn't organize under specific local causes at these events. That's not an argument against unity, or solidarity, or anything like that, but it's an appeal for local action. I'm also not trying to hijack them movement, in fact I'm saying the opposite. I understand the benefits of wanting a narrow focus, but I truly think we'll be able to do good in north florida if a few of our more activist-y members start direct action campaigns, only loosely affiliated with the broader movement.

You can try and argue against factionalism, and I will help you argue for unity and solidarity, but if you argue against local direct action, you will find me arguing you. After that argument, I will gladly help you fight your next battle, so long as I agree with it. I apologize for being long winded but I really feel like this is not about occupy wall street but about a great social awakening. You and I can both try to put the movement in boxes, but the truth is, it will do what all of it's individuals do. Some will use occupy to organize on a local level. Some won't. I simply don't see why you'd want to discourage that sort of thing though.
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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by ZachAddair on Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:45 pm

I agree with everything you just said. I misunderstood.
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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by wearelegion on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:31 am

Aw jeez now I feel like a wordy jerk. Well hopefully someone disagrees with me so this wasn't all wasted. Btw, did you speak? i think I recognize you from your photo, but it's kind of small. If you are who I think you are, I thoroughly enjoyed what you said.
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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by melittophily on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:11 am

Actually, I pretty much agree with you too, but that doesn't mean it was wasted text. I guess I just have a reflexive fear of losing momentum through fragmentation. I've been involved off and on with more specific struggles (women's/LGBTQ) for a while and I'm in coalition-mode where I basically take for granted that a lot of my own concerns are on the back-burner, because I don't know if I will see this kind of mobilization again in my lifetime.

Your point about our specific state government concerns is well-taken. I guess I'm just a little bit resigned to Rick Scott and the legislature at least until they're eligible for recalls.

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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by Augustus IV on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:57 am

I agree with you too wearelegion. That's why I brought it up. In solidarity we can support movements across the nation and together we can influence policy. We can do that too at the local level. One of the main functions of the revolution is to separate corporation from state. There's no separation at the federal nor the local levels.

You're right about this being a social movement unlike one we've never seen before but I also think it's a moral movement too. We expect corporations to behave a certain way even though we understand that their reason for existence is the PROFIT. Finally people are waking up and asking why should profit machines have anything to do with governance. Governance is supposed to be for the people. In Florida with this new administration it will get worse.

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Re: Special Website that's our ongoing Declaration Document

Post by ZachAddair on Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:39 pm

I guess you could think of it like this:

Anyone who wants to start a group, do so away from the group (unless you need specific help), then after the group is established (you can determine what "established means to you) you can bring it to the group (at General Assembly, by posting on the Facebook or posting it on here) and if it's a cause the group supports, people will naturally start contacting you/your group or establishment.

Now who is being wordy? Smile Also I did speak Saturday! Thanks for listening Very Happy
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